Karl Renz - The Song of Irrelevance

Title

The Song of Irrelevance

This dance of consciousness,

trying to find a perfect match with itself, will never stop.

This inquiry is an infinite game.

It will always dance with itself and look for a perfect dancer,

a perfect dance, a perfect harmony.

K arl Renz

Karl Renz

The End of the End

Q: When we woke you up right now, what happened to your perception? You heard us waking up, somebody called Karl and then immediately everything was there or...

K: It was already there.

Q: When you are in deep sleep, do you actually perceive it?

K: I am not in deep sleep.

Q: In deep-deep sleep?

K: There is no one in deep-deep sleep, there is no one here.

Q: But there is a perception, right?

K: Perception is always!

Q: And the perception of Karl?

K: What about the perceived Karl?

Q: What happened when we woke you up?

K: Nothing happened. What should happen?

Q: I just want to know what happens with your personal perception?

K: There is no personal perception.

Q: Thats all I know, I just know my personal perception...

K: You have no personal perception!

Q: But is there an experience of personal perception?

K: No.

Q: Then what Im experiencing now?

K: You are experiencing Yorden, but that is not a personal perception. That is a personal experience and not a personal perception.

Q: But the perception feels very personal...

K: The perception never feels anything. You cannot feel perception. Dont claim something you cannot do. What bullshit is that?

Q: We are just playing with words...

K: We are not playing with words, you cannot experience perception. Whatever can be experienced is not perception.

Q: I dont know...

K: I know that you dont know.

Q: To me, it seems like I experience perception. If I hit my hand...

K: That is not perception, thats an experience.

Q: But where is the perception then?

K: It is always prior to what you experience.

Q: But in experience there must be perception...

K: There is perception but it is not perceived. Perception can never be perceived otherwise there would be two perceptions. Which perception is perceiving which perception?

Q: Then youre talking about something else that I normally experience and see...

K: You talk about experiences but not about perception.

Q: I talk about that what I perceive...

K: But that is not perception. The seer is already perceived but the perception, that is perceiving the perceiver, can never be perceived.

Q: These are just words. Can you show it to me?

K: What?

Q: But how can I see it?

K: I just said it you cannot see it. What bullshit are you talking about?

[Crow caws]

K: Shut up!

[Crow continues cawing]

Q [Another visitor]: There is no one who cares for your shut up...

K: Look at him. He is Mr. Sadhu on the run. Do you think thats the only bird that doesnt listen to me? All these birds, [pointing to visitors] they never listen. [Laughter]

Q [Another visitor]: But can one listen to you?

K: No!

Q: Can one understand something?

K: No! Otherwise I would kill them right away. If there would be some one here who would understand or would-not understand, I would kill them right away.

Q [Another visitor]: Could or would-not? [Laughter]

K: Both is impossible! If there could be one who could [understand], then he claims that he wouldnt.

Q [Another visitor]: But how would you kill him?

K: I would show him how to fly!

Q [Another visitor]: If I say Im dying or afraid of death, you say there is nobody dying. So how can you kill somebody?

K: That is what I just said. You dont listen! He tries to be clever and never listens...

Q: Im not clever.

K: Im not clever? [Laughing] Now he is very clever. Who claims that he is not clever? The one who is really clever. Mr. Cleverly!

Q [Another visitor]: If everything is perception, can there be a shift in perception?

K: Of course!

Q: Can it be explained? The shift in perception?

K: It can be explained, but doesnt mean that you would understand it.

Q: For what will this explanation then be good?

K: For nothing! Thats the beauty of it. No one needs it.

Q: So I just play with words?

K: If you could play with words, it would be permanent fun. But now the words play with you.

Q [Another visitor]: What about the shift from understanding to not understanding anything anymore?

K: No. That cannot happen. Understanding is permanent.

Q: Like perception?

K: Like perception.

Q: Is there no understanding in understanding?

K: There is understanding but no one who understands.

Q: But no one who understands anything...

K: It doesnt matter!

Q: Perception is always, understanding is always...

K: Whatever is, is always...

Q: And there is no one in it, no one having it, no one being it...

K: There is not even no one.

Q: Im trying to understand again and again and its hopeless. As a phantom, I cannot understand what you are talking about. I cannot! Its impossible!

K: Now you understand that you cannot understand, but the understanding is there. Was there any moment there was no understanding?

Q: No...

K: So theres always understanding and theres always knowledge. Even if you claim not to know, there is knowledge. But inspite of one who knows or doesnt know, there is knowledge. Thats what I always point to and there is always perception inspite of a presence of a perceiver or absence of a perceiver. I dont say anything else.

So you may say that what is your nature, is with and without one who is experienced. So saying that there is no one, is still one too many and it doesnt work. You are with and without.

Q: This movement that you want to get somewhere or you want to get something like enlightenment or the dissolution of the search is totally non-sense. Its hopeless...

K: Thats the beauty of it.

Q: Im fed up with it...

K: Even that is beautiful. You are playing fed-up looking for yourself. For how long? And then you start again and even by being fed-up, you look for yourself because you think that maybe by being fed-up, you find something.

Q: So...