Perry - Dialogue on consciousness: minds, brains, and zombies

Miller:

Something smells good!

Weirob:

Tomato soup. From fresh tomatoes, not a can. Enjoy!

Lets make sure I have our plan straight. Dave has the week off for spring break; he doesnt have to attend classes. And I have the week off; I dont have to teach classes. As a minister, Sam can pretty much do what he wants with his time, except on Sundays and when he has a christening or a funeral. So we are going to meet here Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to talk philosophy over lunch. Ill provide the food, you guys provide the topics.

Miller:

My job is a bit more demanding than that, Gretchen. But Im looking forward to lunch and philosophy.

Weirob:

No offense intended.

So whats our topic today?

{2} Cohen:

Sam and I have been talking about Ren Descartes*.

Weirob:

You are trying to convince Sam he isnt dreaming? Or he is trying to convince you? Or perhaps he is trying to convince you that one of Descartes arguments for the existence of God really works?

Miller:

None of those things really. Dave is trying to show me that Descartes arguments for dualism dont work. Im resisting. I like Descartes arguments. Especially his conclusion.

Weirob:

Cartesian dualism, huh? The mind is one thing, completely immaterial. The body, including the brain, is a very complicated physical object. We each have a mind and a body, until we die.

Im not surprised you like Descartes views, Sam. He thinks our bodies are material objects, doomed to return to dust and ashes. But our minds are immaterial. They cant fall apart, because minds have no parts. Such immaterial minds are good candidates for immortal souls.

Miller:

You are exactly right. I think I have, or perhaps that I am, an immaterial immortal soul. So Descartes way of looking at it is very attractive to me.

I assume you dont think this, Gretchen. Youre happy to think that youre just a physical being.

{3} I dont want to be just a physical thing. I dont really understand why anybody would be happy merely being a physical being.

Admit it, Gretchen, deep down wouldnt you like to be immaterial and so possibly immortal? Then the three of us could continue to have these conversations in heaven someday!

Weirob:

I admit, that would be nice, assuming we all end up in heaven, which isnt so obvious in my case. If we are simply immaterial souls in heaven, you wouldnt have a mouth and I wouldnt have ears, so conversaton might be difficult, but I suppose there is some more direct way of communicating in heaven. Actually, immortality might be a bit much. But maybe a few extra years of disembodied philosophical discussions would be fun. And perhaps I could learn to play a harp. Except if it is just my immaterial soul that survives, without any hands, that might be tricky.

Miller:

Sarcasm. I had a feeling youd say something like that. You are such a materialist.

Weirob:

I plead guilty to being a materialist. But we need to be careful here. Some materialists are eliminative materialists. They think minds were part of a theory humans came up with a long time ago, when they didnt know better. Minds were immaterial things of some sort. Now that we know how the brain and central nervous system work, we should just reject the theory, and eliminate minds altogether. Nineteenth-century chemists had a theory that included phlogiston, a special {4} substance that explained fire. Now we realize there is no such stuff, and the phenomenon of things catching fire can be better explained without it. Eliminative materialists think our concept of mind has the same status. We should put it in the dustbin and just talk about brains.

Miller:

So if you arent an eliminative materialist, what sort of materialist are you?

Weirob:

I think minds are more like stars. Our ancestors noticed stars and learned a lot about them. They observed constellations. They learned to navigate with the North Star. But they didnt know what stars were....